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The Debate Between Supporting Academics And Athletics

How do you support your school? Does the success or failure of its athletic program affect your giving to academics or visa versa?

There has been a push of support at Bruins Nation for members to retract their gifts to the academic-based UCLA Fund because of the lack of success in football. These members believe their actions are right because "athletics and academics" are intertwined."

UCLA fans feel that withholding money from UCLA as whole, including academics, is the best way to make the voice for change.

I know that higher ups in the University may have little interest in athletics. But as an alum, fan, and donor myself, my U.C.L.A. experience includes athletics just as much as academics. My experience also includes dorm life, IM sports, various social and cultural events, and life in Westwood. Others may include student government, research, the Greek system, ROTC, service and outreach, Band, and any of the other innumerable aspects that U.C.L.A offers to its community. It all counts. Athletics and academics are equal components of the whole that is U.C.L.A. If one aspect of the University suffers, the entire University and all associated with it suffer. My loyalty and love are for whole of U.C.L.A.

Fortunately, Georgia Tech is in a situation where it's endowment is at record levels and it has the highest alumni giving rate in ALL the country at 50% - and 2x the national average of giving - so the reality of academics suffering because of athletic failure isn't going to happen on the grand scale. But what do you believe? Is it athleticsandacademics or are the two mutually exclusive?

FWIW, the GT Athletic Association really could use an increase in giving.

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Ahhh, but Tech fans did do this...

by unofficially boycotting basketball games towards the end of CPH’s tenure. Maybe not explicitly a withholding of money…but certainly a withholding of confidence and support.

As for UCLA fans, they need to be reasonable here. Not everyone can having a winning football program all the time…it just isn’t possible. But you can’t allow academics to suffer, instead you hold the people in the responsible positions to account. UCLA has recently been hellbent on hiring UCLA alums to coach their football program (Karl Dorrell, Rick Nieuheisel)…but maybe its time they think outside the box. There’s no way you can explain to me that their natural advantages in recruiting (being in Los Angeles) are being wasted by anything other than not having a “strong brand”.

But what UCLA fans are considering doing only leads them down a road of being nothing more than another satellite UC school (Santa Barbara, San Luis Obispo, etc.)…instead of being the flagship UC school in southern California.

"Reach down in there...TURN THAT DAMN THING UP!" - Coach Paul Johnson

by TBuzz on Dec 2, 2011 9:25 AM EST reply actions  

Let's add some additional caveats.

Some schools make so much money on athletics (Football) that the Athletic Association gives money to the academic side of the school: TX, u(sic)GA, Florida(?), otherwise known as Football Factories. These are revenue producing programs unlike a published professor who brings in little cash, (see Nick Saban’s salary vs. Dr. Jones’s salary in Sociology).

Some schools need funds from Alums and the school to fund Football (see GT, see Vandy).

I found this article fascinating, and it does mention UCLA by name.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/college_guide/blog/athletics_over_academics_an_im.php?page=all

Money, the root of all evil, but fans will skip their mortgage payment to buy an inflatable Auburn Tiger for the front yard (NASCAR fans=no braces for the kids because that Earnhardt leather jacket is a must have).

So it is the have’s and have-nots.

Let’s tax ESPN, CBS, ABC. They make all the money, they distribute huge amounts of money, but mostly to Football Factories. Let’s apply the Rozelle rule and split it evenly by Division 1, 1A, 2, and 3 and see where we get.

I wouldn’t cut any giving to the school because of Athletic performance. I wouldn’t cut giving because the IE School loses it’s #1 World Rank. I would cut giving if a long time coach shielded the hallowed program from the depredations of a pervert child abuser.

You'd do it for Randolph Scott!
RANDOLPH SCOTT!

by DressHerInWhiteAndGold on Dec 2, 2011 10:36 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

Good post.

I recently had to trim back on my season ticket package and tech fund (my seats were around the 30 lower level)…now they are in the upper deck….having kids & life in general makes you think about your priorites.

by 071u on Dec 2, 2011 10:51 AM EST up reply actions  

I had to cut my season tickets this season

from the budget to pay for wedding stuff. However, I didn’t expect us to have the worst Clemson/uga average season attendance since expansion, either. I think the economy is hurting a lot of people.

I write stuff From the Rumble Seat.

by BirdGT on Dec 2, 2011 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

We cut back a few years ago to the Goal Line, 2nd row. Was it ever worth it!!!

Watch 1/2 the game on the BigScreen, watch the Big Guy cut to the corner (my side usually), Reggie throws the moon ball.

You'd do it for Randolph Scott!
RANDOLPH SCOTT!

by DressHerInWhiteAndGold on Dec 2, 2011 3:11 PM EST up reply actions  

The wife and I...

…upgraded this season. Used to be in that Greek block student seating and now we have Upper North Deck season tickets. We don’t yet donate to the AT Fund, but we go to the games and buy GT merchandise pretty much whenever it strikes our fancy.

by GT_Jason on Dec 2, 2011 2:55 PM EST reply actions  

I can't speak specifically for Tech

But I do have a general opinion about these things.

Sports were part of the earliest development of colleges and universities because of the Athenian ideal that a sound mind must inhabit a sound body. Sports were considered one facet of a well rounded education. Somewhere along the way people started getting paid to do athletics, not necessary an evil thing if this is your only way to make a livelihood. The problem was that professional athletes existing along side college athletes set up a slippery slope for anyone interested in sports. Do I engage in athletics as part of a well rounded curriculum or do I engage in athletics because it is the only thing I think I can do to make money? If it is the latter then athletics is cut loose from its original moorings and education becomes secondary at best and totally unimportant at worst.

Some schools dropped “big time” sports years ago and chose to focus on non-scholarship and intramural sports because they saw the danger of institutions beginning to exist only for the sake of supporting sports rather than sports coming under the larger umbrella of education. A side note is that Bobby Jones chose rookie status because in his time he was clear that playing for money meant it was no longer a sport. That is pretty close to the Athenian model. (does anyone find it ironic that I keep referring to a place called Athens when referring to academic ideals?)

Anyway, the reason I became a Tech fan as a youth was that I sensed this was an institution that did not want to sell out to those crass commercial interests that view academics as a nuisance that interferes with sports. But here is the elephant in the room. There are lots of people who are good enough to play in the NFL but they are not good enough to get into college. Funny thing though, colleges are the farm system for the NFL. There really isn’t any other way to get prepared for the NFL than to play in college. So where do all these players go who can only make a living by playing football but who really aren’t college material?

Let’s just put it this way. The occasionally line up across the line of scrimmage from Georgia Tech.

by Atlanta's original team on Dec 2, 2011 3:41 PM EST reply actions  

Too much Money

Too much ESPN.

In the late 70’s, at the nadir of GT Football, there was talk of dropping sports. Homer Rice said no (and should be GT Man of the Century for that stand), otherwise we would have become the 20th Century’s latest version of the University of Chicago – once the great football power under Stagg, now a center of excellence for Quantum Mechanics.

Would I still be proud of my education without football? Yep. Would I give $$ for the debating team and a new lab to study quarks, bosuns, and string theory? Nope.

UCLA’s got this thing screwed up. If the Board of Directors of a company screws up, sell the stock in protest, even if you take a loss. If your Alma Mater has some down years, don’t cut off your nose and soil your own nest. Like they say over at EDSBS, “Because College Football is too Important to be left to the Professionals.” Like Chevy, “it runs deep”.

You'd do it for Randolph Scott!
RANDOLPH SCOTT!

by DressHerInWhiteAndGold on Dec 2, 2011 6:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Too much whining

Dr. Joe “Yoda” Pettit wanted to drop Tech to I-AA or even farther. Rice stood up for athletics and even though the darkness continued through the early 80s—making some even question our joining the ACC!—by mid-decade we were back on a decent footing.

IMNSHO people who gripe about Tech sports now—or even under Chan Gailey—have no idea what BAD really is. Most of the ACC and half the $EC would kill to have our level of success, across all sports.

Tech realizes that athletics drives affiliation with the school (and contribution$) long after getting out.

by jabbajacket on Dec 3, 2011 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

As a student

I have yet to experience the whole “paying a substantial amount of money for athletics” thing yet (football seasons tix are ~$40 for season tickets or free if you play it right, everything else is free) but I can certainly appreciate the importance of giving back in other ways. This school and the people I’ve met here (read: the fraternity) have shaped me into a new man from the one I was 5 years ago, and will give a jump over everyone else in the career path. I guess what I’m saying is that I don’t think I’ll ever stop giving to the school and the fraternity when I have graduation moneez, but I’ll sure as hell stop buying season tickets if we start sucking it up for a while.

Paul Johnson: not giving a crap about what you have to say since 1987.

by GTNate on Dec 3, 2011 8:55 AM EST reply actions  

I support regardless

Maintaining winning sports programs has no bearing on my decision to support the school. It doesn’t even impact my decision to go to games or not. The only things that would are my own personal circumstances. I try to make multiple football, basketball, and baseball games a year regardless of the current success of said programs.

The people who think not paying for tickets or not donating is the right way to get change are imo, not looking at the whole picture. Yes, not going to games sends an obvious and clear message that the fanbase is unhappy with the current situation, but that combined with a complete stop in support also makes it much more difficult to actually make change in this era of extreme buyouts. Look no further than the situation GT was in with Hewitt’s ridiculous buyout and contract.

In today’s economy, it is getting harder and harder to justify buying out coaches and fully replacing an entire staff.

From The Rumble Seat -Drinkin' whiskey clear since 2008.

"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.

by Jesse28 on Dec 3, 2011 2:15 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

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