Georgia Tech v. Miami: The Aftermath
by acedarney on Oct 22, 2011 8:44 PM EDT
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PrintAfter seeing Georgia Tech drop its second straight game, I can't help but ask myself two things: what happened, and what should we do about it? This isn't anything new either. The offense has been abysmal since the second half of the UNC game, the defense is sporadic, and special teams have been anything but special.
For over a month, defenses have, as "experts" like to point out after every loss, figured out how to stop the triple option. With any offense, you try your hardest to take away what a team does best and force them to do what they do worst. In Georgia Tech's 2011 offense, you force the weakest runner to carry the ball. This season, that's the quarterback. Without a threat on the ground at that position, teams can load up against the dive and attack the pitch, leaving the quarterback to fend for himself. If this guy can run over someone and get 20+ yards a couple times, that won't happen anymore.
In the passing game, the plays are there to be made, the protection is okay usually, but the pass-and-catch part doesn't happen. Without consistency though, we get behind schedule in terms of down and distance, and secondary players can consistently attack the line of scrimmage without worrying about the big play behind them.
On defense, Jeremiah Attaochu makes all the difference. He's a playmaker, and probably our best player. The secondary is playing extremely well against the pass. The weakness is up front on the line. The defense, while playing well against the pass, has been inconsistent against the run. Teams don't really need to pass against us to be effective. I'm not that worried about the defense though, as they've played well this season for the most part.
Finally, special teams can be summed up in one word: abysmal. What is it about these guys that they just can't do what they're supposed to do? Paul Johnson supposedly "got involved" this offseason, but the players just aren't getting it. The returners have made numerous mental errors (usually multiple times a game), and there hasn't really been much explosive plays anywhere (unless you're on the other team). Kicking (both punt and place varieties) are terrible.
As my boss sometimes says, though, "let's not focus on problems, let's focus on solutions." Check the jump for my solutions.
On offense, we need a change at the quarterback position. You can't rest on your laurels from spring and training camp and beating up on lesser opponents. Since starting ACC play, the quarterback position has been targeted because it's a weakness. We need to make a change there to a more physical runner. I think this change was made in the Miami game when Coach Johnson went with Synjyn Days, but his bell was rung on the fumble play. I think Days is a more dominant runner and he probably can't be any worse in the passing game.
On defense, several players need to get more time. First and foremost, Jemea Thomas is one of the best players we have in the secondary. He plays a lot on special teams (he's our best player there), but he needs to play a lot on defense too. He can probably replace Rashaad Reid without too much of a drop off. Second, the defensive line needs to rotate the backups in more. I saw a lot out of players like Dieke, Cummings, etc., and they need to get out there more often to see what they can do. It will take a couple more years for Groh to get real 2-gappers out there, but it'll come, and these young lions are definitely producing.
On special teams, I'm not sure what you can do. We've exhausted all our kickers. It's just consistency that's the problem. One kickoff goes into the end zone for a touchback, but the next doesn't make it to the 15 yard line. Punting is similarly sporadic. On punt returns, we need to try a new guy back there. He's let the ball hit the ground several times by not fielding the punts. I think his mistake in the Miami game was the final straw for me. I can't imagine what he was thinking, and I was shocked to see him out there again. Long term, we should probably get a special teams coach whose sole responsibility is coaching kickers, the return teams, and the coverage teams. Leaving it to the players isn't working.
On that note, I feel that this team has maybe one more win in them (Duke, although they gave Wake a run for their money, and I don't think we're better than Wake). If these changes are made, and they're successful, we've got a chance to win another game. If not, we'll see how Vad Lee does as a Redshirt Freshman.
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if this team does end up only winning one more game
how much pressure will be on PJ? I highly doubt anything would every happen, but he would be on the hot seat rolling into next year.
Pressure on CPJ??
He’s got a .667 winning percentage (32-16) over 3 1/2 seasons, an ACC title, and for the most part…we’re competitive in every game. Why on Earth would he be on a hot seat?
"Reach down in there...TURN THAT DAMN THING UP!" - Coach Paul Johnson
Were 0-3 in bowl games.
I don’t think he’ll be on the hot seat, but once again yesterday his playcalling blew my mind. If you QB can’t get out of the backfield on option plays, then why did Paul keep calling those plays where Tevin kept getting hit in the backfield? If we can’t give him time for it to work then we need to get the ball outside fast on sweeps and speed options.
by RamblinWreck7 on Oct 23, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Jim Tressel also had a pretty crappy success rate in Bowls...
The only major bowl he won was aided by a phantom PI call, and helped them win a championship.
Sean Spence played like a beast yesterday. He’s a future NFL safety playing MLB for the Canes. The pitches weren’t made because the pitches, for the most part thanks to Miami’s team speed, weren’t there. I think we need to recognize that Tevin has obviously hit a plateau, especially throwing the ball. How is it we’ve lost all confidence in throwing a 1-on-1 ball down the field to Stephen Hill? How do you inexplicably overthrow Orwin on Play 1 of the game…then underthrow him on that 4th down we really needed to possibly get back into the game.
"Reach down in there...TURN THAT DAMN THING UP!" - Coach Paul Johnson
The announcers said it perfectly yesterday...
Do you really expect Tevin to be comfortable throwing the ball when he passes it 10 times a game? Tevin doesn’t get many chances to throw the ball in game time situations so his lack of accuracy doesn’t surprise me.
Give Tevin a break, he just needs to get comfortable in what he is doing. I hope coach Johnson really works on the passing game and running routes this week to get the timing down. 20 passes a game is a good average to shoot for, but most of them have to be high percentage throws if you want his confidence to go up.
I think that once he becomes comfortable out on the field, then we’ll see a big improvement in the passing game. :)
by RamblinWreck7 on Oct 23, 2011 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
On Tevin
He doesn’t need more time…he’s had plenty of time, and he’s becoming less comfortable the more he’s in there. Also, we won’t average 20 passes a game, especially when our quarterback play is as it is right now.
He doesn't need more time to throw the ball,
That’s not what I said. I said he needs to get more reps in a game situation. He may have time in the pocket to throw, but he doesn’t look comfortable throwing passes. He short hops some, overthrows some, you can tell that he is out of sync.
by RamblinWreck7 on Oct 23, 2011 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Not what I said either
He’s had 12 consecutive starts in this offense. He’s not getting more comfortable in his 13th start. He’s getting less comfortable, and even the easy plays that we ran out there looked bad, so it’s not like we can give him more easy plays to build confidence.
My mouth dropped when I heard the announcers say that
by their logic that would mean a quarterback should expect to have to throw five or six bad passes every week before he could find his rhythm. Just because you throw fewer passes in a game doesn’t mean you should be less accurate. That was the stupidest thing I have heard those announcers say going back to early in the season when one of them said Orwin Smith was from Alaska.
by Atlanta's original team on Oct 23, 2011 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
You must not have played quarterback then.
Because it’s a whole lot harder than it looks. Being comfotable and in a rhyth are very important to quarterbacks.
by RamblinWreck7 on Oct 23, 2011 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
No one is arguing that rhythm is not important to a quarterback.
I just don’t believe you have to throw 30 passes a game before you are comfortable hitting a crossing pattern or throwing to someone one on one in a fly or hitting someone who finds an open seem in the flats.
Practice ought to make you competent enough for a passing game that is not all that complex.
Tevin’s rhythm seems off not just on passing.
by Atlanta's original team on Oct 23, 2011 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I wonder how much they practice throwing the ball.
by RamblinWreck7 on Oct 23, 2011 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
We don't throw timing routes...
or utiilize zone reads or anything that a more sophisticated passing offense would do. We run 5-10 pass plays and that’s it. It’s on Tevin to hit the open receiver…end of story.
"Reach down in there...TURN THAT DAMN THING UP!" - Coach Paul Johnson
If so then that's a horrible passing game plan.
I even think Paul Johnson doesn’t agree with this.
by RamblinWreck7 on Oct 24, 2011 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Guys are open though
That’s what’s so frustrating about it. Even without all that, guys are still getting open and the ball isn’t getting there.
Im sorry.
But every QB should be able to hit a 5 yard out route 9 out of 10 times regardless of being in rhythm or not. Tevin is throwing it to the ground everytime.
Apology accepted
I thought Synjyn Days’ arm looked lively enough to give him a shot at it. The turnovers, while they killed us last year, may have to be dealt with if it also results in a drastic increase in offensive production. Besides, all those three and outs are almost equivalent to a deep pass that’s intercepted. If we get a TD or two out of it too, I’ll take it.
Synjyn Days is starting to fumble though.
That’s the one thing we can not have increased. They just absolutely kill drives like in 2010.
by RamblinWreck7 on Oct 24, 2011 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Said this in the last thread right before the new one came up...
… this is why nobody else runs the triple option in pro or college football.
Its a great gimmick at a small program like Navy, and it worked great here before everyone adjusted, but now its just a boat anchor.
Can Paul Johnson coach anything else? We’ll see. But it just ain’t going to cut it using a 50 year old offense that died off for a reason.
I don't think the offense is an issue
We’re just used to watching 1st round draft picks running it. Considering we’ve had more success than any team in the ACC outside of VT in the last 4 seasons, I’m not about to just dump the offense.
I think personnel is the root cause to a lot of our current issues. Dwyer broke tackles. Demaryius Thomas caught most balls or fought for most balls thrown his way. To me, we’ve just got to the right personnel in place. 1 and a half seasons of failure is not that bad (see NC State, BC, Maryland, Duke, Wake, UVA, etc. over the past 4 seasons).
I write stuff From the Rumble Seat.
I wouldn't call it a "failure" over the past 1.5 seasons
It worked well last season, but redzone turnovers and poor special teams play really killed us. As bad as the defense was, we were still in a lot of games. The failure has come in the past few weeks when defenses have forced one player to beat them who is incapable of doing so.
well.......
It worked for one season.
Since then, its been either mediocre or a total failure.
We have to face facts. Its a gimmick, and everyone figured it out now.
Paul Johnson is going to need to either evolve, or go back down to a lower tier school where that gimmick will work.
I think
You need to suck on my penis. I’ve never seen you post on here before and it’s been nothing but negative.
BTW...you're a dawg fan
http://www.dawgsports.com/2011/10/23/2502102/youre-on-notice-dawg-georgia-florida-2011#80949771
Nice to see you’re on a ‘dawgs’ message board too ;)
I also post on the UT board. Am I a UT fan also? Or maybe I’m a college football fan, and you should stick to the topic instead of net-stalking a poster.
The triple option isn’t working. And there’s no way to recruit a decent QB to play in this system, because its a dead end for a QB. I think the last 2 seasons are showing this pretty darn clearly.
So again…. Do you think PJ can evolve or not?
Funny thing is...
You’re all over the internet, youtube, etc as a UGA fan. So STFU you fu^cking f@ggot.
But in response to your original question...
Any offense will get shut down if the players aren’t making the plays. It doesn’t matter if they’re running the option or a west-coast offense. Calling it a gimmick demonstrates your ignorance as a human being.
I guess I win the argument...
… since you are utterly incapable of arguing the point, and instead have to netstalk me and make your argument based on that.
I’m a fan of a lot of schools and I take an interest in their programs. So what?
A shame you are mentally incapable of staying on topic.
Trent Keltaric
I defer to my original statement. What a lame@ss queer name. It’s hilarious to me your parents actually thought that sounded good.
Who the heck is...
Trent Keltaric?
But again, thanks for conceding my victory in this argument since you have nothing substantive to add.
Again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58IfX2yUbSI
Yep. You’re a jackets fan alright…go eat a dick.
You lost again...
… since you utterly fail to argue the point.
That keltaric on youtube isn’t even me retard.
I am literally crapping my pants b/c I know who you are...
It’s hilarious to me because you are such a deviant on the internet….but your profession in real life is the exact opposite of that. HILARITY to ensue next week.
And deny it all you want.
But you are ALL OVER the dawg & UGA message boards throughout the internet LMFAOOFOAOODAOLOLOL
I really thought you would get a life
after you quit writing on the firepauljohnson site. guess not.
Why are you feeding the troll?
"Reach down in there...TURN THAT DAMN THING UP!" - Coach Paul Johnson
He's feeding himself.
He’s the troll.
by RamblinWreck7 on Oct 24, 2011 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Guess that means
UGA’s pro-style offense is out of style too since they absolutely SUCK at running it. Can’t even beat Boise State and the gimmick tricks they insert in their pro style offense. Trent Keltaric. What a queer name.
I actually agree
he needs to work more short passes in like we did in the BEGINNING OF THE SEASON when were, you know, winning. It seems he has abandoned them totally, or is at least less willing to work with them
Paul Johnson: not giving a crap about what you have to say since 1987.
...
He needs to evolve his triple option offense to include some other elements.
I see what you're saying
but I don’t think he needs to start throwing things in there left and right. Just lots high-percentage throws to let Tevin get his feet back under him so he can eventually start completing bombs to Hill again to make secondaries back up.
Paul Johnson: not giving a crap about what you have to say since 1987.
Been asking that for a few weeks
What the hell happened to the quick out pass to Hill and let him go one-on-one with the DB? Look at the last three games and see how far off the CB’s are playing the WR’s. Instead, we are trying to have the WR’s run deep when the CB’s already have a ten+ yard advantage on them. More quick outs and hooks would force the DB’s to creep closer to the line and then we can try burning them deep.
From The Rumble Seat -Drinkin' whiskey clear since 2008.
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
You're looking at this superficially
Would you say that, because Duke sucks, the pro style offense is a bad scheme? It’s about having enough players to mismatch with the defense and create plays. We don’t have enough of a mismatch at the quarterback (both running and passing) and B-Back positions to force defenses to respect everything.
It only fails if it becomes predictable,
Like Paul Johnson seems to love to do.
by RamblinWreck7 on Oct 23, 2011 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
blah blah blah
the triple option is outdated and quirky and it won’t work blah blah.
I am so sick of this line. It is an offense. If your guys don’t execute it, you don’t win. It is just like any other offense. You could have a mind meld of Charlie Weiss, the “trick play” part of Bobby Bowden’s brain, and whatever the anti-Jim-Tressel is out there calling plays, and if their guys don’t act out what’s on the chalkboard, nothing else matters. In short, shut the hell up, please.
Paul Johnson: not giving a crap about what you have to say since 1987.
This isn't like the spread....
Where people poo-poo’d it, and then TONS of schools went on to use it successfully.
Ga Tech is the only school aspiring to be top tier using it, and its failing. I think there’s a reason why it isn’t catching fire and nobody else is using it.
Once people adjust and get used to it, it doesn’t work.
There’s a reason it died off as an offense.
see above
Go eat a tube steak. Get railed by your boyfriend. Rinse. Repeat. Thanks for visiting the blog. You negative lame@ss troll.
What's negative..
… about wondering if CPJ can evolve?
He has to. He’s really good at a certain type of offense. But it just isn’t cutting it in the big leagues.
Maybe he can evolve it.
Look at the spread option offense.
You could point to things like the “Run and Shoot” as an early precursor. It was ok, but it failed horribly in the pros and wasn’t all that amazing in college either. The closest thing was Florida’s “Fun ’n Gun”, but that only worked because the WRs were light years faster than everyone. That wouldn’t work now either.
The spread option offense was an evolution of the old “run and shoot” offense. It had to evolve to be long term viable.
So now we have CPJ’s triple option which he ressurrected from the past. There are obviously times and conditions where it works well. But if you get behind, you are screwed. And the nature of the offense is such that it is REALLY hard to recruit a top notch QB, because QBs that are good passers don’t want to play QB in it.
So the question (again. seriously, can we stick to the topic and stop with the personal stuff) is this:
CAN CPJ EVOLVE HIS TRIPLE OPTION? Can he add wrinkles and tweaks to it to make it viable?
Because this straight up triple option like he ran at Navy ain’t going to work in the big leagues. That’s becoming very clear.
We?
You are a UGA alum & fan. Keep it up cupcake.
Stop failing...
… and start arguing the topic.
You have no idea who or what I am. You have no idea how many times growing up I ate at the varsity and then watched a Yellow Jackets game.
So seriously… stick to the topic.
Also, do you have any idea how many people have attended BOTH Georgia Tech and UGA? Thousands.
STAY
ON
TOPIC
Here's the deal
The triple option is no more a gimmick than the spread or the air-raid. Every system, both offensively and defensively requires three things that are all related and affect each other. Without one of these three things, every system will eventually struggle and soon fail.
First, you need talented personnel that fit the system. You can not expect a pro-style QB to perform in a triple option offense no more than you can expect a triple option QB to perform in an air-raid offense such as OKST or one like Leach’s air-raid when he was at Texas Tech.
Secondly, you must effectively train the personnel. No recruit coming out of high school is going to be prepared 100% for the college game now 100% versed in the system the team is attempting to run. If the proper time is not taken to train, the the players will not perform up to potential regardless of talent. Yes, the most talented will do better than the least talented, but none will play at or near max efficiency.
Finally, the players have to execute the system as it is intended to be run. In the triple option, it is imperative that the QB make the proper reads and not force things. In the spread option or even pro-style system, the QB has to be able to read the defense and get through his progressions in order to make the proper decision.
All of the above must happen in order for any system to truly be successful. If any one of the three is weak, the other two will suffer because of it. Not recruiting the proper talent for the system will put extra pressure on the coaches and players to train properly and put even more pressure on the players to execute and not make mistakes. A more talented team like Alabama can recover from not executing and making mistakes much more easily than say Vanderbilt or to a lesser extent uga.
Georgia Tech will inheritantly be at a disadvantage from a recruiting standpoint because today’s NFL is obsessed with the forward pass and therefore the team has to train harder and execute with minimal to zero mistakes in order to overcome that lack of talent when compared to other teams. That’s not saying that GT can’t recruit talented players or that the current players aren’t talented. It’s just simply a fact that the current players aren’t the caliber of LSU or Alabama.
TLDR: It’s not a gimmick.
From The Rumble Seat -Drinkin' whiskey clear since 2008.
"You could spend the next fifteen seconds of your life watching a man and a tiger scream together, or you could be an idiot."
Fact.
The problem with getting a special teams coach is
who are you going to fire. Tech is at its limit on the number of coaches allowed by NCAA rules. Or are you going to place someone already on staff in charge of special teams? I dont know about ya’ll but nobody on this coaching staff probly has any idea how to coach special teams.
Sometimes, you have to make decisions
to improve the team as a whole. If you have to get rid of one of the line coaches to play better special teams, then so be it.
We have 2 OL coaches...
problem solved
"Reach down in there...TURN THAT DAMN THING UP!" - Coach Paul Johnson
by TBuzz on Oct 23, 2011 12:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
+1
And especially for having 2 coaches, the OL is playing suboptimally. so to speak. IMO that’s the root cause of most of the offensive problems.
by The Bamboo Shaft on Oct 23, 2011 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
We’ve got much better talen coming down the pike, either being red-shirted or being recruited. Shaq Mason, Trey Braun, Errin Joe, Chase Roberts…these guys are talented and will help us tremendously. We’re just currently caught in that transition between guys recruited for Gailey’s pro-style (Uzzi), mediocre guys CPJ brought in his first 2 years (Jackson, Finch, etc), and the talented Freshman guys on the roster or guys being recruited.
"Reach down in there...TURN THAT DAMN THING UP!" - Coach Paul Johnson
What are you talking about?
Paul Johnson recruited Uzzi and everyone else on the O-line right now.
by RamblinWreck7 on Oct 23, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Uzzi was recruited by Gailey and stayed committed to Tech when they hired CPJ.
I know he recruited all the other guys. It was tough to get the top-notch caliber of lineman in those first few years because I think a lot of players shyed away from his system…until he proved it can be successful.
His OL recruits the last 2 years are leaps above his ’09 and ’10 recruits.
"Reach down in there...TURN THAT DAMN THING UP!" - Coach Paul Johnson
Uzzi cam in with Roddy Jones and Jonathan Dwyer, IIRC
"Reach down in there...TURN THAT DAMN THING UP!" - Coach Paul Johnson
It was the year after
Jones and Dwyer, but Gailey did recruit him during the 2007 season.
And he is our best O-lineman, so what's the point in blaming this on recruiting?
We would be even worse without Uzzi leading the O-line.
by RamblinWreck7 on Oct 23, 2011 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Looking for a pony in this manure pile...
…I thought our defense played really well for once. The game could have been a LOT worse.
Special teams hit a new low, and our offense looked incompetent. I don’t think the problem with the offense is the playbook, I think it’s the players. It’s the “Jimmies and Joes, not X’s and O’s”. Bonehead mistakes and a perpetually outsized O-line.
Tevin Washington
made Reggie Ball look like Peyton Manning today (it’s true). Our defense played very well in my opinion. We gave up 17 points directly off special teams plays. We left UM with awesome field position ALL day and they couldn’t do anything with it. A really good team would’ve beat us by 50 pts given the field position we handed them throughout the day. Love our secondary. Our D line is starting to gel and put pressure on the QB. Yeah – we’re inconsistent against the run…but it’s getting better.
Is this the worst offensive performance since CPJ came here? Washington just looked confused – esp there was one time he took too long to pitch the football….absolutely awful offensive performance. Need to get it together before next weekend…
Rushing --
We only allowed 122 rushing yards…so yeah, I’d say our defense definitely has stepped up. Only so much they can do when special teams & offense sucks :(
One more though
Why oh why did we give up pass play over pass play across the middle. Jacory Harris LOVES the PA pass to Benjamin up the middle…this led to the TD at the end of the 2nd half…that’s the ONLY play Jacory is actually good at, and we give this up to him every year. Awful. Not enough beer to drown my sorrow this evening I’m afraid .
yeah
there were a few plays d gave up that I was shocked. When a team is in a passing down, don’t sell out for the run…
I write stuff From the Rumble Seat.
Our safeties played to far back in coverage.
And yes, they are coached to play that far back…
by RamblinWreck7 on Oct 23, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Tevin hasn't looked good for a month now.
And if we’ve learned anything about this team, it absolutely cannot function without a solid triggerman. Seriously, since the second half of the UNC game, Tevin hasn’t made good reads, hasn’t thrown catchable passes, and generally hasn’t put the other 10 guys out there in a position to succeed. Tevin has to go. I’m never really one to look for radical change. I’m never one to see our defense give up 24 points and ask for Groh’s head on a stick like plenty of AJC.com commenters. But seriously, when your starting QB hasn’t done much of anything right for a month, you gotta pull the guy, regardless of what the backups look like, because the chances that those guys will succeed is currently better than knowing that Tevin won’t.
Also, for those wondering if the pressure will be on CPJ next year after a drop in success….I kinda doubt it. As I see it, Johnson is doing a great job. Sure, the playcalling leaves a bit to be desired at times, but other than that, Johnson isn’t the one missing tackles, missing reads, making penalties, dropping punts on his own 10 yard line, etc. I keep referencing this, but there are times when a team’s poor performance absolutely cannot be blamed on the coach. Here are Exhibit 1 and Exhibit 2 that clearly show where a coach gave his player specific instructions, he did something else, and the team suffered from it. After a while, a coach can only do so much…..and having players who don’t do what they’re told means that anyone else is to blame EXCEPT him.
The Church of Paul Johnson - There's not much to it outside of whooping ass and giving haters the finger. To HELL With georgie!
I agree to an extent
If this issue continues over multiple seasons, then the coach isn’t bringing in the right players. I don’t think we’re anywhere close to that point yet. On a global scale, this team is far better than last season’s team.
Everyone seems to be forgetting that the trend started with NC State
Even Johnson said we left a lot of points on the field that day. Some of NC States players were so over-matched that it never reached the critical/panic mode that began to develop in subsequent games, but the trend was developing.
Which leads to the second Johnson quote: “Every week you either get better or you get worse; you never stay the same.” I mention that because some will say that the earlier offensive proficiency was due to facing weak opponents. I would argue that is only partly true. If we were to play UNC or NC State or Maryland again a this point we could lose all three.
We are regressing each week which is why I said we would lose to Miami.
by Atlanta's original team on Oct 23, 2011 12:38 PM EDT reply actions
It even started
in the UNC game. I think you’re right that we’re getting worse as the quote suggests. We won the UNC through the Maryland game because, although we were getting worse, we were playing weaker opponents. UNC is kind of different because we played well in the first half, but really stunk it up in the second half.
The turning point of our season, I believe, is the drop by Stephen Hill when he was wide open against UNC.
I agree but I don't know what it means
The first major foul up by the offense was the hill dropped touchdown pass. Then it seemed each week we sprinkled in a little more and little more in the way of offensive screw-ups. Who knows how that kind of trend starts? I sure don’t.
by Atlanta's original team on Oct 23, 2011 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
One word.
On offense, we need a change at the quarterback position.
No
What would you suggest then?
Pass more so we can see balls overthrown by 20 yards? It’s not working, and it’s not because of play calling.
I like Jemea Thomas to and he already plays a lot.
But what the heck is this supposed to mean?????????
He can probably replace Rashaad Reid without too much of a drop off.
Your telling me that we should bench Rashaad Reid for Jemea Thomas? In your quote your saying there probably won’t be to much of a drop off… So why on Earth would you put in Thomas when Reid is better? That doesn’t make sense to me.
One word: yes
the drop off is in coverage ability, which is reportedly Reid’s strength.
This still absolutely makes no sense to me...
Put in a worse player to… make the team better?
by RamblinWreck7 on Oct 23, 2011 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
He's not a worse player
He is not as good in coverage as Reid, but everything else that is required out of the position is much improved with Thomas in the game.
Thankyou for clarifying,
but I’d like Rashaad Reid, he’s good too.
by RamblinWreck7 on Oct 24, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm not impressed with Al Groh
Mainly because of the D-line. Right now, we have guys who were recruited to play in a 4-3 defensive front. Instead of playing to our D-line’s strengths, Al Groh is forcing his system on the players. The hallmark of a great defensive coach is that he can make a great defense out of what he is given. I’m not suggesting that we switch to a 4-3, just to a 1-gap scheme in the 3-4. Our current to gap scheme doesn’t fit our players on the D-line very well. Both Jason Peters and Izzan Cross are 4-3 DE’s, so they are good at rushing the passer and getting penetration into the pocket. Instead, they are used to stuff running lanes even when that doesn’t fit their skill set. I feel sorry for Logan Walls, this poor guy is asked to cover 2 gaps at NT. In order for that to happen, he needs to be able to hold the point of attack and shed blockers in a 2-gap scheme. That definitely is not his skill set either.
T.J. Barnes may have the size for NT, but he was recruited as a 4-3 DT. Should we be surprised that he doesn’t play with great leverage sometimes at NT?
If only Al Groh had an imagination… but maybe he will develop one this week!!! I think we’d see a major improvement in our D-line play if we played to their strengths, which is a 1-gap scheme. Just like in a normal 4-3, a 1-gap defense is where these players are more comfortable.
Did you not watch yesterday's game?
The Front 7 was probably the best performing unit. The only major hole in our D yesterday was that damn square-in they ran into a wide open zone to the middle of the field. The hand-off between the secondary and LBs led to this. But beyond that, CAGs playcalling was much more aggressive, and considering both their offensive TDs started on a short field, let’s give them some credit for not giving up anymore.
"Reach down in there...TURN THAT DAMN THING UP!" - Coach Paul Johnson
We've played 7 games this season.
One decent game isn’t going to change the last few games of horrible run defense until we consistently can stop the run.
by RamblinWreck7 on Oct 23, 2011 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
The fact that our Defense improved to this extent after 7 straight games, and on the road, is attributed to better scheming and gameplanning.
"Reach down in there...TURN THAT DAMN THING UP!" - Coach Paul Johnson
So that's good.
I said the only problem I had with it was how the D-line is being used.
by RamblinWreck7 on Oct 23, 2011 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't discount the impact
of Jeremiah Attaochu. We don’t have a player on this team that can replace him.
Yes I liked how they played by the way.
I just want to see it happen consistently. We couldn’t stop Miami running at the end of the game.
by RamblinWreck7 on Oct 23, 2011 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Did you notice
the creativity that Groh used in the game? Did you notice the four down linemen? Did you notice Attaochu in a three point stance?
In college, you inherit players and have to deal with it until you can recruit your own. You can’t teach both systems at the same time and then just switch when the rotational players come in. Switching systems takes a lot of time in college ball because you can’t just go out and get new guys in a single offseason. It takes a few years.
Yes! And that's what I wanted Al Groh to do, put 4 down lineman on running downs and switch it up.
I said the only problem I have is the scheme being used on just the D-line. Everything else is looking good.
by RamblinWreck7 on Oct 23, 2011 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
The problems as I see it...
1.) Recruiting has gotten worse. The reason this offense was so successful during Paul Johnson’s first two seasons were because he had better recruits to work with. Everyone talks about how bad Chan Gailey’s recruits were. We had better defensive players, bigger offensive linemen, bigger play makers on offense and a better QB in 2008-09. This is what has happened. CPJ has coached at GA Southern and Navy, where he has recruited smaller defensive players, smaller offensive linemen, and in general, second-class players. Because he has grown accustomed to this type of recruiting scheme that generally worked well for his offense in particular, he has now brought that with him to GT. I saw someone call the triple option a gimmick earlier. It would be a gimmick at Navy, because he was forced to recruit smaller players at a service academy. But he is not coaching at Navy anymore. He seems to be recruiting players at Tech below our potential. So despite everyone’s claim that “Oh, we just need to get rid of all Chan’s players and allow CPJ to get the guys he really needs to make this offense work”—We are beginning to see exactly the kinds of players CPJ is able to get, or at least the types of players he thinks he is able to get. And it just isn’t going to work year after year in this league. You have to be able to make the most out of the system at this level with bigger, tougher players. You need the D. Thomas’s, the J. Dwyers, and a tough-gritty QB’s like Nesbitt (even if he was only a 38% passer) to be able to really run the offense. And you need a big-strong defense that can contain the run and cover passes to allow your offense the most opportunities to score.
2.) Paul Johnson cannot keep winning with a one-dimensional team. It seems like he is really focused on getting his offense to be productive, but the defense and special teams have not complemented the offense. As poorly as the special teams have been playing, he might as well just go for it every time on 4th down, because no matter whether he punts or not, the opponent usually returns the ball to our 45 yard line anyway. The defense has not played that great against the run. But in general they seem to play decent red zone defense. So the way I see it, even if we go for it on forth down inside our own 30, chances are our defense will allow the opponent to get to that point on the field anyway. So why not just go for it on every forth down anyway? On kick-offs, do an onside kick everytime, because your opponent is going to return the kick to mid-field half the time anyway! At least on an onside kick you get a 50% chance of getting the ball back.
3.) Our QB lacks confidence. Our QB lacks consistency. Our QB does not perform well under pressure. Chances are, we are going to lose all but possibly 1 game (Duke) for the rest of the season, so why not concede and give your back-up QB’s some playing time in preparation for the next season, when they can start out with some valuable experience? Use Tevin as the back-up QB, and maybe sitting on the sidelines will give him a little envious spunk necessary to really come out and play with all his heart, with a little more focus and “I’ve got something to prove” attitude. And so what if S. Days fumbles. Nesbitt started out doing the same thing back in 2008, remember? It can’t be any worse than throwing an interception on the first play of the game or getting sacked on every third play for a loss.
4.) Forget field goals. C. Johnson needs to call a trick field goal every once in a while, the chances of success are about as great as J. Moore’s chances on making the kick anyway.
I like your spunk
I disagree that recruiting has gotten worse. I think it’s equal from Gailey to Johnson. Also, Johnson hasn’t tried to recruit undersized defensive players, that’s just how it’s happened. Groh is doing a pretty good job of getting talent in here though (see Lewis, Johnson, Attaochu).
If you’re a mid-tier team (which we are), you don’t have a steady stream of NFL-caliber players on your team. You maybe get one or two every couple years, and you have to deal with it. Gailey never recruited an NFL quarterback, and that’s really what matters in both systems: the quarterback. Different skill sets, but the same level of importance.
As far as your other points, I can’t argue with them. I think the defense is getting progressively better though, so I wouldn’t lump them in with special teams.
So to some up this thread...
071u can’t figure it out that he is an extreme troll right now… just because a guy doesn’t think the option offense works doesn’t mean you have to turn into an idiot…
I'm cool
with people not agreeing on whether an offense works or not. What I dislike are ugay fans coming on to a gt msg board posing as g tech fans. Dude is hilarious for using the same screen name for everything he does. Best part is he’s also the same guy that was running the firepauljohnson site last winter. He’s also a lawyer and has no life.
Do you know him personally?
I didn’t think so. You don’t know if he is this guy that you are talking about. In fact I don’t even know who you are talking about lol.
by RamblinWreck7 on Oct 24, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s a freaking blog about GT Athletics. If he says erroneous crap about GT while posing as a GT fan he’ll get informed by one of us who knows what they’re talking about. If he refuses to believe beyond that point then there’s really nothing you can do.
Trying to intimidate someone generally doesn’t solve a problem…it brings out the ugly instead.
"Reach down in there...TURN THAT DAMN THING UP!" - Coach Paul Johnson
I do
know him personally (or rather who he is). It’s over and taken care of though :) The language & syntax in one of his posts tipped it off because it was identical to a hate blog he was running / contributed to last year.
So you've met him in person...
I doubt that
by RamblinWreck7 on Oct 24, 2011 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
And in response to Keltaric,
Yes I think the option offense that coach Johnson uses needs to be improved. I wrote an article a while ago called “Georgia Tech Offense.”
I am a huge advocate of short high percentage passes to help this offense. Tevin’s may not be as good of a runner, but he is a good passer. He has struggled a lot though lately in passing, but I think he will improve and get back on track.
The Scheme Blame...
It ain’t the scheme, it’s the execution, and maybe the talent level… Plus Miami returned alot of those suspended starters against us… That Middle LB was in every play, definitely has some pro talent. check out this article, if you haven’t seen it yet… http://www.tomahawknation.com/2011/10/24/2509521/scouting-fsus-opponents-week-8
props to our D
Thank you
I can’t believe we keep hearing the blame the scheme theme every year.
The most illuminating things Paul Johnson said in his recent press conference were that neither Virginia nor Miami did anything any differently than they did in previous years against his offense. The difference was execution. Then later he added what for me was a really telling comment. “We have to look and see if we are asking our players to do more than they are capable of doing right now.” He also suggested that the job of the coaches was to give the players a plan they could execute.
This is a young team that has a lot of growing to do.
by Atlanta's original team on Oct 26, 2011 8:33 AM EDT up reply actions
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