Random bowl game thoughts
by BirdGT on Dec 30, 2009 12:00 PM EST
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PrintThe first topic was about Mike Leach and his punishment of Adam James. It reminded me of a time in middle school where this kid in gym class called a coach "lazy." The coach grabbed the kid by the arm, dragged him across the court, put the kid's hands on the controls of a hardwood buffer, and turned on the buffer. The buffer slung the kid around like a rag doll to the amusement of the coach and the other kids in gym class. I guess it's a weird 20 year old memory to have but either way the coach in gym class was wrong and I think Leach was wrong. And I think it relates to Mangino's case as well.
You have two coaches who didn't grow up playing sports or learning social networking. They didn't learn the importance of stature, social hierarchies, or peer respect in team sports. All they knew were the X's and O's. The books. So when they were confronted with situations requiring discipline they crossed the line; embarrassment through awkward psychological torture. Hell, George O'Leary's an even better example of extreme torture on the practice field and he also never played a snap of college football. I doubt anyone knows if he even played high school football. These guys have no boundaries when it comes to discipline because they were never pushed to said boundaries as players. I guess I'm trying to say, "They know how to brand someone, they just don't know what the hot brand feels like."
I wanted to originally talk about bowls and I ended up ranting on Mike Leach. Here are some quick thoughts about bowl games. I think 90% of the bowls are a joke. When you compare the percentage of teams that get into I-A bowls when compared to other sports, it's ludicrous. Here are the stats for teams in college sports excluded from postseason play, teams included, and number of teams that reach "elite" postseason play:
I included my favorite college sports of I-A and I-AA football, college basketball, and college baseball. Postseason in all of the sports means you either made the tournament or a bowl game. Elite for baseball is the College World Series. Basketball is the Final Four. I-A is a BCS berth. And I-AA elite status is simply the National Champion since there's no real demarcation in I-AA, merely tournament berths and a champ. I think it's plain to see why other people are starting to realize the bowl system is a joke. More teams are included than excluded. Now-a-days, you have to be pretty terrible not to make a bowl. The odds of making it to an "elite game" are about 7 times higher than the next closest sport. Here's a more visual breakdown:
One last fact I'm surprised no Iowa fan has really brought up. At-large teams are 9-5 all time in the BCS against conference champions. This includes non-BCS teams so the Boise State and Utah teams of yore are included as "at large" in that stat.
Late Edit: My last thought relates again to sports radio. Anyone out there listen to the Packer Show out of Charlotte on the drive home? Anyone else find it terrible and incredibly obnoxious? Lately, they've had Doug Gottlieb on because I'm assuming Packer's crew is on vacation forcing the local networks to play nationally syndicated stuff. Gottlieb is pretty annoying but he's TEN times better than Packer. So goes life of someone living in a non-major sports market. I have to listen to Clemson-USC football radio 365 days/year or Charlotte Bobcats/Carolina Panthers talk 365 days/year. It's pretty terrible. I recommend satellite radio for all the unfortunate Tech fans and Atlanta natives in the Pee Dee.
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didn't learn the importance of stature, social hierarchies, or .....
Really??? You really think that social hierarchies should have anything to do with how you are treated in college, sports or LIFE?
I don't know if you're defending or attacking
I’m saying Leach was never socialized through team sports. I’d say that it’s pretty obvious from the way he treated the kid that he was never taught social boundaries. And that he never learned the repercussions from peers when you’re not only picked on by peers but from people that are supposed to be authority figures.
You are a sad, strange little man, and you have my pity.
How you feel about your knee jerk reaction now?
"I think it's safe to say our concerns are many." -- Kirk Ferentz
About the same
as when I posted it. I’ll miss your piss and vinegar comments when our game is over. Please continue commenting when the bowl season is over.
You are a sad, strange little man, and you have my pity.
What is piss and vinegar about my comment?
Leach has since come out with his side of the story, the TT admin emails are available for viewing and very damaging, and the trainer and medical staff has confirmed Leach’s version. Oh, and the Craig James involvment has been revealed (and it is beyond wierd and pathetic). You did have a quick reaction and I was wondering if you had reassessed. There is nothing venomous in that.
"I think it's safe to say our concerns are many." -- Kirk Ferentz
the current players echo my sentiments
Link.
You are a sad, strange little man, and you have my pity.
You mean three of 105 players?
hardly a consensus. I think it is fine to find what Leach did distasteful. While this sort of thing is less and less common in today’s entitled world, it is a far cry from harming the player. Did he try to humiliate him? Sure, and for some players asking them to come out for one play is humiliating to them. But, the facts are Leach has no record of harming his players. Yet, there is a very clear record of this player not matching the standards set forth by Leach and his position coaches. There is a record of his parents trying to intervene on behalf of their son’s playing time (can you imagine Dwyer’s mom having any leverage with Johnson on playing time or how he should be used?). Of course there will be players who were superstars in H.S. and bench riders in college who seize this moment to say Leach was a bad guy. But I have yet to see proof he hurt this kid physically in any way. I have yet to see anything that suggests that what he did was against any rule set forth by the school. If people don’t like him because he is outside the box and willing to send messages to his players in unusual ways…fine. But you went way past the proof in comparing him to the coach in your school who tried to harm a player or to Mangino. My sense is you would be shocked if you knew what goes on inside the vast majority of college football teams when coaches try to set a tone of toughness.
"I think it's safe to say our concerns are many." -- Kirk Ferentz
Jebus Christ
The “he didn’t play the sport so he doesn’t know” is the absolutely weakest argument anyone can make. Believe it or not, people have the ability to know/understand things that have not personally experienced. And, given the deification of Coach Johnson that goes on around here, is this really the type of argument you want to make when it comes to coaches?
Look, I’ve got no dog in this particular fight, and I don’t think either Leach or the Jameses come out of this one totally clean. But one thing that is clear from the evidence available is that this is far from a case of a out-of-control, dictatorial taskmaster brow-beating a helpless player. Lecah undoubtedly could have handled things differently, but it’s also certain that James is making a mountain out of a mole-hill.
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
Actually this has
been brought up as an issue with CPJ before. A few GT fans wonder if CPJ takes the game a little too seriously when it comes to yelling at players.
I think it’s also an issue of nice guys have a long leash. Assholes have a shorter leash. Assholes who didn’t even play the game have a much shorter leash. I think stuff just gets swept under the rug more often when you’re winning.
You are a sad, strange little man, and you have my pity.
you also gotta admit
TTU and Leach were headed for a divorce no matter what. O’Leary essentially practiced a kid to death yet he’s still at UCF. This was an inevitable event.
You are a sad, strange little man, and you have my pity.
Oh I absolutely
Agree that Tech and Leach weren’t meant for a long time together. In fact, that’s what is driving this story. From the accounts I’ve read, what Leach did to this kid would be considered fairly minor (not blameless, mind you), but he’s a bit of a punk, complained to daddy who complained to the school. The school was looking for ANY excuse to get rid of Leach and decided this was the perfect hook to use, thus sparing them having to shell out $800K.
My point of contention was your assertion that somehow Leach not having been a player in college caused him to cross a line. First, I don’t think he really crossed the line. Second, his playing/not playing is irrelevant. Assholes have a short leash, whether they played or not (see e.g. RichRod), especially assholes the administration doesn’t like. That’s what doomed Leach.
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
you know
I didn’t really think this whole “he didn’t play, so he doesn’t know” idea was legit until it was brought up with Kansas. There seemed to be a lot of resentment from the players because of Mangino’s lack of a playing career – it may have been more so related to his morbid obesity.
From what I gathered, he forced the kid to stand in a blacked out shed for several hours. You know, I understand the kid’s a whiner but make him run laps or stairs or just don’t play him. That’s punishment enough. I don’t think a coach should be using psychological warfare on kids at the collegiate level. A coach has enough or should have enough authority to make practices Hell without subjecting kids to cruel and unusual punishment.
You are a sad, strange little man, and you have my pity.
the shed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5Q_5nYwWLU&
You are a sad, strange little man, and you have my pity.
For the record,
the word is berth.
I agree that bowls are kind of ridiculous, but personally I like seeing a lot of them. Even though it’s relatively easy to get into a bowl compared to others sports, but I feel like most teams and fans treat it not as a postseason to determine which teams are better, but as a reward for having a decent season.
fixed
typed this up in a flurry ’cause I thought it was interesting story. Thanks for the correction.
You are a sad, strange little man, and you have my pity.
Not to be a pedant.
but the table still says ‘birth’.
Not buying this argument.
You guys know more than most about sample size. To argue that coaches who didn’t play the game are more apt to have run-ins like this isn’t really fair to those coaches who never played as kids and have a clean record. The sample size is way too small. If you’re an a-hole, you’re an a-hole, regardless of whether you played football for four years at directional state U. See: Rich Rodriguez, Brian Kelly.
Love Leach or hate him, this was really the first incident of any kind (a minor one at that) and TTU hung him for it. Probably to save 800K as much as it was to hang him for this Adam James incident. There’s much more to this story than meets the eye.
Agreed
The big difference between Mangino and Leach is that in Leach’s case, we are talking about a singular incident (well, two actually) whereas Mangino’s “exploits” were numerous and occurred throughout his tenure both with football players and with others not connected to the program. This is the interwebs, so everything you read is true, and nothing is. i don’t know exactly what happened to Adam James, but I suspect things aren’t nearly as nefarious as he and his dad (and ESPN) are making them out to be.
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
I'll pile on
First big problem with the Leach situation is the lack of due process. James’ claim essentially was allowed to go unchallenged, no open review, etc. Considering James was at SMU during the height of their success (and likely the height of the violations that earned the program the death penalty) this could certainly be filed under “pot meet kettle”. How ESPN can continue to view James as an unbiased sports commentator is beyond me.
It’s well known that one of the symptoms of a concussion is increased sensitivity to light. Perhaps the conversation went like this:
James – “Coach, it really hurts my eyes to go outside. Can I skip practice today?”
Leach – “No, son. But you can stay inside this nice, dark room while the rest of the team practices. I don’t want you to do anything that might increase your discomfort as you recover from your concussion.”
Check out the SBNation TTU board. This is going to cost the University plenty in terms of lost season ticket sales, donations, etc. They are in the midst of a stadium expansion – good luck paying for that.
All small town politics, but an incredibly dumb move on the administration’s part.
XM Sirius
Bill King 142
6 to 10 EST
CFB and CBB only.
by DressHerInWhiteAndGold on Dec 30, 2009 8:43 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Sorry, channel 143
CFB, CBB, Recruiting guru. Coach and Press interviews.
Balls of Steel, etc.
Not the usual ESPN “….now more on Brett Farve and how can the Raiders still win a Wild Card Birth….” crap.
by DressHerInWhiteAndGold on Dec 31, 2009 7:58 AM EST up reply actions
I agree that the bowl system is a bit too large, but...
your numbers seem a bit stretched. The determination of what “Elite” postseason play constitutes across those sports seems arbitrary. 8 teams make it to the college world series each year, and it doesn’t make sense to choose the finals as the only “Elite” post season teams in Division IAA football while you consider the Final 4 to be “Elite” in college basketball. If quarterfinals is considered “elite” across all sports, then there is still a higher percentage in DIA football since there are less teams overall and 10 teams in the BCS bowls instead of 8 teams in a standard quarterfinal, but the numbers don’t seem so drastic.
As far as total number of post season participants I agree, though I would have to point out that some of the lessor bowls seem analagous to the NIT, the CBI and the CollegeInsider.com postseason basketball invitationals, so the percentage of college basketball teams earning a berth should be higher in your chart (129/347 ~37.2%).
well
I don’t think it’s arbitrary because people say, “We made the College World Series!” not “We made the Final Four of the NCAA baseball tournament!” Also, I’m not sure if you’re familiar with college baseball but the finale is played in an 8-team round robin so that’s not really too arbitrary as the top 8 teams are kinda equal except for the final 2. The Final Four of basketball is kinda arbitrary except for the grandiose that is given to the event. The Elite 8 doesn’t get a special stadium or fan arrangement. That’s reserved for the Final Four. I-AA doesn’t really have any special treatment for anybody until they reach that final game in Chattanooga so I guess that would be considered the pedestal rather than merely the #1 final team.
Good comment on the NIT and CBI, however. I don’t know if this is the case or not but do those tournaments count as actual games towards their final records or are they considered exhibition like playing a D-II squad?
You are a sad, strange little man, and you have my pity.
I understand what you're saying
about their being too many bowls. However, for all of the flaws of the bowl system, there are a couple of things that work out very nicely.
First, it gives us, as fans, a better opportunity to see how our team(s) fare against non-conference foes. We may have seen a few good non-con games at the beginning of the year, but we get some that are generally more equal match-ups now.
Secondly, we can see some teams that we may not have seen over the course of the year. Especially in the case of the TCU and Boise, and other mid-majors, coverage is typically spotty if you’re not actively trying to see them.
And lastly, and when I say lastly, I mean that I’m too lazy to think up any other good reasons, please remember that it’s currently 20 and snowing in Chicago. I’d much rather be in Florida or Arizona or Texas. If I have the time and the money, a quick little vacation and a chance to watch some football is a great idea. It’s not nearly as important to those of you who live down south, but for those of us where it’s snowing, even living vicariously in warmth is nice.
It never gets to be easy
by chitownhawkeye on Dec 30, 2009 10:40 PM EST reply actions
I enjoy most all the bowls
Crown Royal, Roaring Fire, Kids run for their rooms because Daddy’s using bad language at the Refs…
Teams I don’t know well
Inter-regional games
Some are crap, some are Idaho over Ball State.
Like Joe Pa said, “How many of these guys make the Pros, 5 or 6. So we bring 120 down to Florida and treat them like kings before their career is over.”
by DressHerInWhiteAndGold on Dec 31, 2009 8:00 AM EST reply actions
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